Comments on: Why I Hate Partnerships (an inside look at my Cyberworx partnership) http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships A blog about running an Internet business, domain names, and making money. Fri, 27 Jan 2012 02:00:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-220 admin Sun, 09 May 2010 01:20:29 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-220 Yes, looking back, it would have been good leverage for me to keep all their domains in my name. The main reason I did not do that was for liability reasons, because as the domain owner I could be sued for anything they do, whereas when I am just a partner in the company, I can't be sued personally (under most circumstances). Yes, looking back, it would have been good leverage for me to keep all their domains in my name. The main reason I did not do that was for liability reasons, because as the domain owner I could be sued for anything they do, whereas when I am just a partner in the company, I can’t be sued personally (under most circumstances).

]]> By: John Humphrey http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-219 John Humphrey Sat, 08 May 2010 19:09:02 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-219 Eric is Cyberworx.com, the domain, yours or do you manage it? It would seem you'd have some leverage there. It's easy to see in hindsight, but my takeaway from your lesson will be to never give up ownership of the domain name as long as my partners owe me money. Eric is Cyberworx.com, the domain, yours or do you manage it? It would seem you’d have some leverage there. It’s easy to see in hindsight, but my takeaway from your lesson will be to never give up ownership of the domain name as long as my partners owe me money.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-216 admin Wed, 05 May 2010 12:48:38 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-216 I don't mean to imply that I disagree with how my partners are running the company. We have not argued over strategic visions, management, or any of the other factors involved in the business. I have no idea how they could go about making more money, and I know they are working very hard just to keep things afloat. I have no desire to try to get involved in things. I just want them to pay back what they owe me, and then if the company starts making a profit at some point I want to get a share of the profits. I don’t mean to imply that I disagree with how my partners are running the company. We have not argued over strategic visions, management, or any of the other factors involved in the business. I have no idea how they could go about making more money, and I know they are working very hard just to keep things afloat. I have no desire to try to get involved in things. I just want them to pay back what they owe me, and then if the company starts making a profit at some point I want to get a share of the profits.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-215 admin Wed, 05 May 2010 10:59:02 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-215 Since I am not the majority partner, there is not much I can do. Also, I don't think I could run it any better or make it more profitable. The only change I would make is to pay myself a monthly check. Since I am not the majority partner, there is not much I can do. Also, I don’t think I could run it any better or make it more profitable. The only change I would make is to pay myself a monthly check.

]]> By: Ozie Jackson http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-214 Ozie Jackson Wed, 05 May 2010 02:32:17 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-214 It is too bad you don't have a way to take over management of the company. Obviously the partner running it has no clue as to how to make it profitable. Why the company is still headquartered in a high rent, high cost of living area is perplexing. If I had put up most of the money I would bounce both of their asses and install my own team or run operations myself. If the ship is destined to go down I would rather be the one steering it than some clown who doesn't care. Of course I realize this is much easier said than done. If I were you I would be developing some kind of plan on my own, without your partners knowledge, to take over, sue or force them out or force a sale of the company before they lose it all. I don't know the details about the company so I don't know exactly what kind of plan it would be but it would probably involve the counsel of a good attorney and business adviser. Screw the friendship. The only friends you have to look out for now are all named George Washington all 200,000 of them. It is too bad you don’t have a way to take over management of the company. Obviously the partner running it has no clue as to how to make it profitable. Why the company is still headquartered in a high rent, high cost of living area is perplexing. If I had put up most of the money I would bounce both of their asses and install my own team or run operations myself. If the ship is destined to go down I would rather be the one steering it than some clown who doesn’t care.

Of course I realize this is much easier said than done. If I were you I would be developing some kind of plan on my own, without your partners knowledge, to take over, sue or force them out or force a sale of the company before they lose it all. I don’t know the details about the company so I don’t know exactly what kind of plan it would be but it would probably involve the counsel of a good attorney and business adviser. Screw the friendship. The only friends you have to look out for now are all named George Washington all 200,000 of them.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-210 admin Tue, 04 May 2010 12:36:46 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-210 No, there were no contracts or buyout plans or projections. Yes, I should have at least had a formal agreement for the loan. But, I am still not sure how much any of that would help right now. If I were to try to make them pay me a large amount of money it might put the company out of business, and I don't think it has much liquidation value. It does not benefit anyone involved if the company goes under. At least the way it is now there is a chance I will eventually get something out of it if the company starts making more money. What bothers me is not that I was not paid back in full, it is that they are not even making an effort to pay me back. No, there were no contracts or buyout plans or projections. Yes, I should have at least had a formal agreement for the loan. But, I am still not sure how much any of that would help right now. If I were to try to make them pay me a large amount of money it might put the company out of business, and I don’t think it has much liquidation value. It does not benefit anyone involved if the company goes under. At least the way it is now there is a chance I will eventually get something out of it if the company starts making more money. What bothers me is not that I was not paid back in full, it is that they are not even making an effort to pay me back.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-211 admin Tue, 04 May 2010 12:36:46 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-211 No, there were no contracts or buyout plans or projections. Yes, I should have at least had a formal agreement for the loan. But, I am still not sure how much any of that would help right now. If I were to try to make them pay me a large amount of money it might put the company out of business, and I don't think it has much liquidation value. It does not benefit anyone involved if the company goes under. At least the way it is now there is a chance I will eventually get something out of it if the company starts making more money. What bothers me is not that I was not paid back in full, it is that they are not even making an effort to pay me back. No, there were no contracts or buyout plans or projections. Yes, I should have at least had a formal agreement for the loan. But, I am still not sure how much any of that would help right now. If I were to try to make them pay me a large amount of money it might put the company out of business, and I don’t think it has much liquidation value. It does not benefit anyone involved if the company goes under. At least the way it is now there is a chance I will eventually get something out of it if the company starts making more money. What bothers me is not that I was not paid back in full, it is that they are not even making an effort to pay me back.

]]> By: Ozie Jackson http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-209 Ozie Jackson Tue, 04 May 2010 04:22:05 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-209 This is why I don't like partnerships. There is too much risk in dealing with people who may have different ethics/values than your own. Often there are no warning signs until, inevitably, money issues creep up. It sounds like you broke every textbook rule for entering a partnership; Was there a written contract between the partners outlining every detail of responsibility both financially and duty wise? Is there a business plan with cost/profit projections? Was the partnership agreement reviewed by each individual's own attorney? Is there an exit plan/buyout contingency in case one of the partners wants out of the partnership? I am especially surprised to hear that you did not have a revised agreement in place at least before the 200K emergency loan. I hate to hear that this partnership situation has turned into such a costly lesson for you. But take heart in knowing that despite adversity winners always have a way of getting back on top. Just keep the other crabs (your partners) from pulling you down. This is why I don’t like partnerships. There is too much risk in dealing with people who may have different ethics/values than your own. Often there are no warning signs until, inevitably, money issues creep up.

It sounds like you broke every textbook rule for entering a partnership; Was there a written contract between the partners outlining every detail of responsibility both financially and duty wise? Is there a business plan with cost/profit projections? Was the partnership agreement reviewed by each individual’s own attorney? Is there an exit plan/buyout contingency in case one of the partners wants out of the partnership? I am especially surprised to hear that you did not have a revised agreement in place at least before the 200K emergency loan.

I hate to hear that this partnership situation has turned into such a costly lesson for you. But take heart in knowing that despite adversity winners always have a way of getting back on top. Just keep the other crabs (your partners) from pulling you down.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-208 admin Mon, 03 May 2010 13:57:08 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-208 Shiphouse - When we started the company in the late 1990s, my capital contribution was the value of the labor and hosting I provided. I think we may have recorded the value as $1000 or maybe $10,000. The loans were not documented, other than all the old emails I have about it. The verbal agreement was for Cyberworx to pay me back the loan before paying profits to the partners. The problem is that after 11 years, there are still no profits, but the company spends money on all sorts of things like health insurance for employees, trade shows, New York City office space, salaries for my partners (I never got a salary of course) and employees, etc. I am not saying they waste money, but the point is that there is money there, they just never feel they have any extra money. As for the structure of the company, originally I was 50% partners with Phil, but after a few years he brought in Neil as a partner to handle the daily tasks of running the business. I think that made it so each of us had 1/3 of the company, although somehow it later got changed so I own 24% (or something like that). Unless I was the majority owner, it did not really matter what percentage I owned, so I was not that concerned with the specifics (if Phil felt he needed another partner it was fine with me since it made less work for me to do), and I would rather own 10% of a thriving company that 51% of one that goes out of business. Shiphouse – When we started the company in the late 1990s, my capital contribution was the value of the labor and hosting I provided. I think we may have recorded the value as $1000 or maybe $10,000. The loans were not documented, other than all the old emails I have about it. The verbal agreement was for Cyberworx to pay me back the loan before paying profits to the partners. The problem is that after 11 years, there are still no profits, but the company spends money on all sorts of things like health insurance for employees, trade shows, New York City office space, salaries for my partners (I never got a salary of course) and employees, etc. I am not saying they waste money, but the point is that there is money there, they just never feel they have any extra money.

As for the structure of the company, originally I was 50% partners with Phil, but after a few years he brought in Neil as a partner to handle the daily tasks of running the business. I think that made it so each of us had 1/3 of the company, although somehow it later got changed so I own 24% (or something like that). Unless I was the majority owner, it did not really matter what percentage I owned, so I was not that concerned with the specifics (if Phil felt he needed another partner it was fine with me since it made less work for me to do), and I would rather own 10% of a thriving company that 51% of one that goes out of business.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-207 admin Mon, 03 May 2010 13:48:29 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-207 In regards to InsuranceQuotes.com vs. eQuotes.com, InsuranceQuotes.com is worth much much more because that phrase gets a huge number of searches in Google, which means that if you setup a real site on that domain it will get huge traffic. eQuotes.com might be more brandable, but it would get little free traffic, making it harder to sell. If I were starting a big insurance company, I might rather buy eQuotes.com, but it still has a lot less sale value, so it would go for a lower price. In regards to InsuranceQuotes.com vs. eQuotes.com, InsuranceQuotes.com is worth much much more because that phrase gets a huge number of searches in Google, which means that if you setup a real site on that domain it will get huge traffic. eQuotes.com might be more brandable, but it would get little free traffic, making it harder to sell. If I were starting a big insurance company, I might rather buy eQuotes.com, but it still has a lot less sale value, so it would go for a lower price.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-206 admin Mon, 03 May 2010 12:51:52 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-206 When we started the company, I did the books until 2000 when Phil brought in a 3rd partner Neil to handle all of that (accounting, running the business, managing workers, etc.). I have not seen their financials since then, although I believe that they are always low on cash. But, that does not solve my end of the problem. When we started the company, I did the books until 2000 when Phil brought in a 3rd partner Neil to handle all of that (accounting, running the business, managing workers, etc.). I have not seen their financials since then, although I believe that they are always low on cash. But, that does not solve my end of the problem.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-205 admin Mon, 03 May 2010 12:49:27 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-205 I don't remember any of that. What site did I create that was similar to what you were doing? I don’t remember any of that. What site did I create that was similar to what you were doing?

]]> By: Spritz http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-204 Spritz Mon, 03 May 2010 12:47:28 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-204 [Editor's Note: I emailed this person after he posted the comment below, to tell him he was confusing me and my company with another business owner that J Filbird also worked for during that same time period, who happened to be in the same office suite as me. I never did anything with personalized email sites, but this other business owner did.] Eric, You and I butted heads back in 2000, when we both were running personalized email sites. You had J Filbird onboard, and he revealed some of our plans to you (so I heard) and you started a competitive response. I can't dog you for that, I guess a lot of us copy the "happening thing" so we can be positioned for major profits. I went a different route in 2004, and it worked great for me. You might not know this, but I live about 1 mile from your office. I can help you recover your money, guide you back into domain name greatness, and help you secure your future with domains. I do this as a profession, and I am very successful at it. Contact me at the email address I provided. I don't check it all the time, so don't worry if there's no answer for a few days or more. However, I can clean up your problems, and place you in the catbird seat where you used to be back in 2001. cheers, Old Wild Onea [Editor's Note: I emailed this person after he posted the comment below, to tell him he was confusing me and my company with another business owner that J Filbird also worked for during that same time period, who happened to be in the same office suite as me. I never did anything with personalized email sites, but this other business owner did.]

Eric,

You and I butted heads back in 2000, when we both were running personalized email sites. You had J Filbird onboard, and he revealed some of our plans to you (so I heard) and you started a competitive response. I can’t dog you for that, I guess a lot of us copy the “happening thing” so we can be positioned for major profits.

I went a different route in 2004, and it worked great for me. You might not know this, but I live about 1 mile from your office.

I can help you recover your money, guide you back into domain name greatness, and help you secure your future with domains. I do this as a profession, and I am very successful at it.

Contact me at the email address I provided. I don’t check it all the time, so don’t worry if there’s no answer for a few days or more.

However, I can clean up your problems, and place you in the catbird seat where you used to be back in 2001.

cheers,

Old Wild Onea

]]> By: portable air conditioners http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-203 portable air conditioners Mon, 03 May 2010 11:27:19 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-203 Sue. Sometimes in life you do not get to be the good guy, and you have to learn to be okay with that. Your 'partners' would not be surprised if you did, and are probably a bit relieved that you are not. It is also possible to sue and remain on good personal terms if you play your cards right, but that needs to be a choice. A lawsuit does not have to be an overt form of hostility, it can be a way of clearing the air so that everyone does as they have agreed and all parties walk away happy. Sue.

Sometimes in life you do not get to be the good guy, and you have to learn to be okay with that. Your ‘partners’ would not be surprised if you did, and are probably a bit relieved that you are not.

It is also possible to sue and remain on good personal terms if you play your cards right, but that needs to be a choice. A lawsuit does not have to be an overt form of hostility, it can be a way of clearing the air so that everyone does as they have agreed and all parties walk away happy.

]]> By: DN abc http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-202 DN abc Mon, 03 May 2010 11:04:38 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-202 Any partnership or even a simple affiliate program is always a risk, and sometimes we have absolutely no control... I also have companies owing me thousands and thousands of dollars. They may think they got the upper hand but in the long term they will loose as well, because I could be providing even more value for them. I always give a chance, but if the other party doesn't take it, their loss. Any partnership or even a simple affiliate program is always a risk, and sometimes we have absolutely no control…
I also have companies owing me thousands and thousands of dollars. They may think they got the upper hand but in the long term they will loose as well, because I could be providing even more value for them.
I always give a chance, but if the other party doesn’t take it, their loss.

]]> By: t http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-200 t Mon, 03 May 2010 05:15:36 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-200 That sucks, ...A mans word doesn't mean much when it comes to business. Umm you say you don't think they're trying to intentionally screw you ? Is that Really what you believe, I think your just holding on to a little iota of hope that maybe just maybe they will do the right thing,...I wouldn't bet on it,..They should have let you see their books if they had nothing to hide,.. Anyways It was a hard lesson but fortunately for you it didn't take you under, As for insurancequotes.com yeah its a good name but I think EQuotes.com is just as good and I'm sure much cheaper (Less letters = Bigger letters - Display/Print/Outdoor) you should ck it out, its just parked,..And nope its not mine .... I have to get back to work, take care Eric. That sucks, …A mans word doesn’t mean much when it comes to business. Umm you say you don’t think they’re trying to intentionally screw you ? Is that Really what you believe, I think your just holding on to a little iota of hope that maybe just maybe they will do the right thing,…I wouldn’t bet on it,..They should have let you see their books if they had nothing to hide,.. Anyways It was a hard lesson but fortunately for you it didn’t take you under, As for insurancequotes.com yeah its a good name but I think EQuotes.com is just as good and I’m sure much cheaper (Less letters = Bigger letters – Display/Print/Outdoor) you should ck it out, its just parked,..And nope its not mine …. I have to get back to work, take care Eric.

]]> By: Shiphouse http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-199 Shiphouse Mon, 03 May 2010 00:40:32 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-199 As smart man once told me you have to pay for an education. Were any of the capital contributions documented as loans? Is their a paper trail or any re-course for a lawsuit? Why haven't you pursued legal action other than the fact that it is costly? What was/is the ownership structure? It sounds like you collaterized the whole business, couldn't you have cleaned house? I am confused. As smart man once told me you have to pay for an education. Were any of the capital contributions documented as loans? Is their a paper trail or any re-course for a lawsuit? Why haven’t you pursued legal action other than the fact that it is costly?

What was/is the ownership structure? It sounds like you collaterized the whole business, couldn’t you have cleaned house?

I am confused.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-198 admin Mon, 03 May 2010 00:39:49 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-198 I don't think they are intentionally trying to screw me, but the end result of all of this is that I did get screwed, which is why I hate partnerships. I don’t think they are intentionally trying to screw me, but the end result of all of this is that I did get screwed, which is why I hate partnerships.

]]> By: admin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-197 admin Mon, 03 May 2010 00:16:41 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-197 I would guess that InsuranceQuotes.com would now be making well over $100,000 per year profit for me if I still owned it. Back when I sold it insurance was not nearly as big a business online as it is now. I would guess that InsuranceQuotes.com would now be making well over $100,000 per year profit for me if I still owned it. Back when I sold it insurance was not nearly as big a business online as it is now.

]]> By: SanFranBusiness http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-196 SanFranBusiness Mon, 03 May 2010 00:03:58 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-196 What a story! Ridiculous how those guys (Phil and Neil) took advantage of you. Is it worth suing? What a story! Ridiculous how those guys (Phil and Neil) took advantage of you. Is it worth suing?

]]> By: Sin http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-195 Sin Sun, 02 May 2010 20:21:09 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-195 Wow, you are abosultely got ripped off. You sold the high profile domain InsuranceQuotes.com that could have make 20 thousands per year of profit atleast, wow. And you sold it for these bastards who do not even bother responding to you. What a shame for them. This is absolutely Shame to these people who do not even care for someone who helped in saving them. Phil- You are the Most Selfish Guy and Do not worry Karma will look after you and you will be suffering soon. Wow, you are abosultely got ripped off. You sold the high profile domain InsuranceQuotes.com that could have make 20 thousands per year of profit atleast, wow. And you sold it for these bastards who do not even bother responding to you. What a shame for them. This is absolutely Shame to these people who do not even care for someone who helped in saving them.

Phil- You are the Most Selfish Guy and Do not worry Karma will look after you and you will be suffering soon.

]]> By: Why I Hate Partnerships (an inside look at my Cyberworx … Image http://www.impulsecorp.com/why-i-hate-partnerships/comment-page-1#comment-194 Why I Hate Partnerships (an inside look at my Cyberworx … Image Sun, 02 May 2010 15:54:06 +0000 http://www.impulsecorp.com/?p=448#comment-194 [...] here: Why I Hate Partnerships (an inside look at my Cyberworx … Equality – Disability Hate Crime and Its Identity Politics …Chasing Evil: Hate Crime [...] [...] here: Why I Hate Partnerships (an inside look at my Cyberworx … Equality – Disability Hate Crime and Its Identity Politics …Chasing Evil: Hate Crime [...]

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